51. The #1 Potty Training Mistake Parents of Autistic Kids Are Making with Molly Johnson, the Autism Consultant
In this podcast episode, Molly, The Autism Consultant joins Brittyn to delve into the intricacies of potty training for autistic children. Listen as they discuss the series of small skills involved in the process and emphasize the importance of breaking down the steps to make it manageable for your child. Join them as they provide valuable insights into the challenges and strategies surrounding potty training and the impact on skill development and behaviors for autistic children, including picky eating!
Molly has experience working with school-age children and young adults on the spectrum. Through her work as an autism teacher and autism parent consultant, she has worked with autistic individuals and their families in a variety of settings, including public schools, a university, a private autism program, and virtually.
Where to find Molly:
Molly on Instagram @theautismconsultant
& listen to her podcast, The Autism Consultant Podcast on:
Join Molly's membership for more support & incredible resources HERE!
And a reminder that Molly will be a guest inside of my membership, The Nourishing Autism Collective next week!! Join HERE and RSVP for her upcoming potty training workshop!
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TRANSCRIPT
Hi, I'm Brittyn, a Registered Dietitian and autism sibling. I have a passion for helping parents of neurodivergent kids navigate nutrition and wellness for their child, one small step at a time. Here we'll explore practical nutrition tips, learn from top autism experts, break down the newest research, and share inspirational stories that will empower you to utilize nutrition to help your child feel their best and thrive.
Listen in while picking kids up from school, sitting in a therapy waiting room, taking a quick walk or wherever you find yourself, looking for some inspiration and a friend to guide you along this journey. This is Nourishing Autism.
Molly: Oftentimes people see potty training as one skill. I want my child to be potty trained and they see one skill and that's not the case. It is a series of smaller skills. And how do we teach a bunch of skills? We go one at a time. We don't teach them all at once. We don't put this huge expectation on them all at once to go from zero to 10 overnight. And so I think people have this expectation in their mind that it's just going to be one skill. It's going to be in a matter of days, they're going to master it. And that doesn't happen because we have to make it feel manageable for the child.
Brittyn: Happy autism awareness and acceptance month, I am so excited to be able to celebrate alongside you, celebrate my brother who was diagnosed on the autism spectrum 27 years ago, and be able to spread more awareness and acceptance for our kiddos on the autism spectrum. Thanks so much for listening to the Nourishing Autism Podcast Today's episode I am so excited about because one of the guests is a dear friend of mine, Molly, the Autism Consultant. In fact, I actually just got to meet her in person for the first time last week. And it was just like catching up with an old friend. She's a person I've known for a few years now, and it feels like we've known each other in person, but it really has been an online friendship that started from Instagram. I'm really excited for her to come in and talk about potty training mistakes and the number one mistake that you should be considering. If you are planning to potty train or you're currently potty training your autistic child. She's also going to be coming in my membership site next week, if you're listening to this live, that is Wednesday, April 10th. And she will be a guest speaker inside of the Nourishing Autism Collective talking about top potty training mistakes. So if you enjoy today's episode, It's a great idea to come on in and join the live guest workshop where you can ask her questions and get support.
But without further ado, I would love to kick off this episode with Molly Johnson, The Autism Consultant.
Brittyn: Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for listening in to the Nourishing Autism podcast. I'm so excited to be sitting with a longtime friend of mine, Molly Johnson, The Autism Consultant. Thanks, Molly, for being here.
Molly: Hello, everyone. Thanks so much for having me back. I love when we collaborate and we get on each other's shows, and we can talk about all things picky eating, potty training, skill development, visuals. We could talk for days.
Brittyn: I know, and so much of what we do really meshes well together, even though we do completely different things, somehow there's always some common ground. So for people who maybe don't know who you are or haven't listened to some of our past episodes, explain who you are, what you do, and who you help.
Molly: Absolutely. Hello, everyone. My name is Molly Johnson, if we have not had the pleasure of meeting yet. And I am an autism consultant. And so what I do is I help parents with making progress on skill development with behaviors, challenging behaviors. With creating an environment that's going to really help your autistic child thrive.
And the way that I kind of came into this role was I was an autism teacher. I taught in public schools, in a public middle school and a public elementary school teaching autistic children. And what I found is that parents, they needed support. They needed support outside of school and therapy. There were things going on at home that they wanted to make progress on.
So, I found that I would be spending my evenings collaborating with my students' parents a lot to help them make that progress that they wanted to see at home. So I started a podcast, the Autism Consultant Podcast, and then shortly after, I left teaching to pursue this full time because It was just something that took off.
And now I have a membership where Brittyn has been a wonderful guest inside my membership, where I support parents with this ongoing collaboration to do that, to, you know, make progress on skills and behaviors.
Brittyn: I love it, Molly. And it's been so cool because I feel like both of our businesses have really grown together.
We both now have memberships and, you know, I remember first meeting whenever, I mean, I was maybe somewhat established at that point. Maybe I'd been going for like a year or two and you were new and we connected and I was like, okay, Molly is an instant friend. She is also going to be able to help so many parents because you have such a passion for what you do.
And so I truly believe that's what makes somebody stand out is the passion that they have behind it. And so we ended up having a lot of clients who were doing my programs at the time, and then were also doing your online course that you had at the time. And then, you transitioned that into your membership to be able to have all of your resources in one place.
And then you went into potty training. And so it's just been really cool to see the growth of everything that you've done and how many people you've been able to support.
Molly: Well, I will say you've helped with that growth a lot because I remember when I first came into the online space, this was a whole new ball game. I am used to going to school, teaching in a classroom, not teaching adults, not being on social media. So this was all brand new to me. And so you say you were newly established when we met, but in my eyes, I mean, you were doing everything right. And you had that connection with your clients and you had that passion and that drive and it just looked like you had it all figured out and you were so kind to me. And I feel like you kind of took me under your wing a little bit and, you know, you answered every question that I had and, I'm just so appreciative for that and now we have so much overlap with our clients, you know, I have so many clients who they end up joining your membership or they were your client. Now they're my client. So it's really cool to see, we do different things, but yes, there's a lot of overlap and we're still kind of working in the same area.
Brittyn: Totally. Actually, one of my favorite moments ever, you came and spoke in my membership back in November, and when you were on that call, I think there were like maybe a few of your people who are in your membership as well, and you were like, oh my gosh, so good to see you. I still have the Christmas ornament that your child made me. It's hanging on my tree, I was like…
Molly: So that, mom, I don't want to say her name because I want to be respectful of privacy, but that mom, she was one of my very first clients when I first started like three years ago.
And so she was going through a lot of struggles with her son and his behaviors and his emotions and school. And it's just so amazing to see where he's at now. And I had no idea she was in your membership. So when I came in to speak and she was on the call, I was like, Oh my gosh. And yeah, she sent me an ornament.
Her and her son went shopping for an ornament for me. He picked out this little mouse ornament. So cute. And she was like, buddy, are you sure that's it? And he said, yep, this one's it. And before that call in your membership, I just put up my Christmas tree and all the ornaments. So it was like, Oh my gosh, I just put up your ornament that you and your son got me.
Brittyn: So sweet. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that made me so teary. I was like, this is the power of connection in this space and just like, ah, it's so special. I love that so much. Yeah, that really stuck with me. So I want to talk about potty training today. This is a really great lead in because in April you are going to be coming inside of my membership to talk about top potty training mistakes.
And I'm also coming in your membership to talk about top picky eating mistakes and they're like back to back. So I think it's like a Tuesday and a Wednesday. I'll share all of the details. But I'm really excited to swap these with each other. And today we're going to talk about the biggest potty training mistake that you see, and then in April, you're going to be able to really dig into more about that.
So, Let's get started. Why can potty training be so hard for kids on the spectrum? I first want to dig into that.
Molly: Well, there's a lot of components. There's a lot that goes into it. And oftentimes people see potty training as one skill.
I want my child to be potty trained and they see one skill and that's not the case. It is a series of smaller skills. And how do we teach a bunch of skills? We go one at a time. We don't teach them all at once. We don't put this huge expectation on them all at once to go from zero to 10 overnight.
And so, you know, I think people have this expectation in their mind that it's just going to be one skill. It's going to be in a matter of days, they're going to master it. And that doesn't happen because we have to make it feel manageable for the child. So, you know, I want you to think if you're going up a flight of stairs, you're starting at the bottom, you want to go to the top of the flight of stairs.
You're not going to start on that bottom step and jump to the top. And that's how you accomplish going up the stairs. No, you're going one step at a time to get to the top successfully. And that's exactly what we do for potty training. So we have things like, the child has to know what the toilet is for. The child has to be comfortable. And we have to take care of that anxiety regarding, being around that toilet because it's a new thing for them.
We have to manage that anxiety so once they're sitting on the toilet, they're actually able to relieve themselves because, our bladder it's this muscle and it's holding your urine in basically. And so when we think about releasing our urine, we have to be able to relax enough to relax that muscle.
And so the mind really plays a role. Anxiety really plays a role. So, we've got those three things. They have to be able to feel those internal sensations. They have to know how to respond to those internal sensations and know that I feel this internal sensation. My next move is going into the bathroom.
They have to know how to wipe, how to flush, how to pull their pants up and down. So we might have some fine motor differences we have to work on, we have to know how to wash hands. We have to know how to communicate the need to go. We have to know how to walk away from a preferred activity to go sit on the toilet and then go back.
This is actually something that's really hard for a lot of kids because if they have executive functioning differences, which most autistic kids do, they have a hard time walking away and seeing into the future and knowing that "I get to return to this activity". A lot of autistic children are considered to be time blind, meaning they truly live in this moment.
So, if they feel like they have to walk away, they feel like they're walking away forever. So that's the component we have to work on. We want to work on communication, them telling us they have to go. We want to work on initiation, them just feeling that internal sensation and going on their own and not needing mom and dad.
So as you can see, it's not just going to the bathroom. It's not just potty training. It is a series of smaller steps. And so the way that I teach my clients is we master one of those tiny skills at a time.
Brittyn: Yeah. Well, it's so important. And even just hearing you say that, I knew that it was multiple steps.
Well, from learning from you, but when you break it up like that, I'm like, that is a lot to master. And we know that kids on the spectrum typically really struggle with interoception, which interoception is one of our senses. We usually think of just smell, touch, taste, hearing, but there's actually three or four others.
And interoception is basically being able to interpret internal body cues. So like, am I hungry? Do I need to go to the bathroom? And so that, body mind disconnect happens a lot. And so being able to recognize I need to go to the bathroom now that pulls into picky eating. Cause a lot of kids don't realize, Oh, I'm hungry or Hey, I need to stop eating.
I'm full. And then it messes with their appetite or they're kind of eating all day. And then it also pulls into constipation because some kids might not realize that they need to relieve themselves and then they haven't gone to the bathroom in three or four days and now they're really constipated and now it's an extreme sensory experience and then that affects toileting as well.
Molly: 100%. And, you know, a lot of parents ask me, they'll say, okay, my child's peeing on a regular basis, but they're constipated. Can I start potty training? And I tell them, no, now's not your time. What I want you to do is work on that medical need first. I don't address anything medical like constipation. We need to get that under control.
And that's where you and your program come in. And you really help parents with this because, you know, if you think about We want to teach a child to sit on the toilet to go number two. Well, they have to actually be going number two on a consistent basis. The opportunity needs to be there. And if they're not pooping, the opportunity is not there to practice going on the toilet.
So I always tell parents, if you're in this situation, I would put a pause on potty training and I would take care of that constipation first. And yes, picky eating might play a huge role in that because maybe they're not getting the nutrition that they need because they've got such a limited diet.
Brittyn: Yeah, it's so true.
Constipation is really hard because there's so many pieces wrapped up in it, right? There's the nutrition piece, which is the most important piece. And then there's the sensory experience. And the sensory experience is going to be worse if the nutrition piece is not there. And so there's all of these steps.
And I mean, you're right, having the correct urge to go and also not having extreme anxiety that it is going to really hurt when they go to the bathroom. We don't want them assigning that negative experience with potty training.
Molly: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, if you think about, how many times, I hope you're okay that I say pee and poop.
Somebody or some people are really offended and they're like, Oh, I don't want to hear that. And I'm like, Ooh, well, don't join my membership because in my potty training course, I think I say pee and poop like over a hundred times.
Brittyn: Oh my gosh, Molly. If you only knew how much of my job was talking about poop.
Molly: I know. I never thought this would be part of my job, but here I am.
Brittyn: Yes, it's the reality. And, well, the amount that you think about poop as a parent, you don't realize until you're a parent. And it's like, that's always something Jack and I are talking about. Like, has Sam pooped
today?
Molly: Absolutely. My daughter Vivian, she was so constipated the first six weeks of her life.
And Her pooping habits and behaviors and bowel movements was like my life for six weeks. And even today, I'm like, has the baby pooped yet? I'm trying to track in my mind, how long have we gone since the last poops? I am trying not to go more than two days. Cause then I become an anxious parent.
But what I was going to say is, you know, if you think about how many times we pee a day, it's a lot compared to how many times we poop a day. So let's say that we pee six times a day. Well, that's six opportunities to use the toilet to pee six opportunities to practice that skill of relieving urine into the toilet.
But if you think about poop, let's say we go once a day, we only have one opportunity to practice pooping in the toilet. And so what happens is parents make such progress on their child peeing in the toilet and poop comes, you know, it's a little delayed, but it's only natural because of that, how, how our bodies work.
We have so many more opportunities to practice peeing on the toilet, but if we have a child who is constipated or severely constipated, and they're going like every three or four days, they barely get to practice pooping in the toilet. So you're going to make very, very slow progress, if any progress at all.
And this is why I want parents addressing this constipation issue. And this is where you are such a great resource because I know you've helped so many parents with this. I want them addressing that beforehand, because you're going to end up in a situation where You know, you're kind of defeated because you're like, I don't know why I'm not making progress, but it's that the opportunity to practice isn't there.
It's nothing your child's doing wrong. It's nothing you're doing wrong. It's just, we have to get constipation under control before we really want to see that progress.
Brittyn: It's so true. And honestly, constipation is also going to affect urination because the pressure and your appetite, I mean, there's so much that's wrapped in it.
So if you are constipated, your bowels, this is a fun podcast episode already, like so many fun words, it's going to press on your bladder. And so it can affect your urge to go as well. It can make you feel like you really need to go. It can just change things. It can change your sensitivity to needing to go.
It can press on your stomach and make you feel nauseous. So there's all of these different pieces too. And so, just to reinforce again, why it's important to address that before moving to potty training, it's going to help your child be that much more in tune with their needs as well, which I know is a huge step of your process is helping them start to become a little bit more aware of their bodies.
Molly: Absolutely. Independence is the goal. And you know, some parents get a little nervous about that because they think, oh, my child's only 3,4,5 years old. I'm not ready for them to not need me, but we have to be future thinkers and independence is the goal. We want to get to a point where your child recognizes that internal sensation and can walk themselves to the bathroom and that's all about us. You know, I actually have parents take data on their child's behaviors before they even set them on the toilet because I help them recognize these behaviors and then we create new patterns of behavior with your child once we start sitting them on the toilet. All potty training is, is creating those new habits, creating those new patterns of behavior, but it's all triggered from that first internal sensation.
And then we start the new pattern of behavior. And I hope that doesn't sound, it probably sounds a little complicated, but it's not, I make it so easy. When I was an autism teacher, I had anywhere from eight to 12 students in my class and I was always potty training a few students at a time.
I didn't have all this time on my hands. I needed a quick, efficient, easy, practical plan. And I remember going to Google. How do I potty train an autistic child? And everything on Google, it's really not that much different than how to potty train a neurotypical child. And I'm like, this, doesn't really address my students needs.
You know, this is skill development, but we're not approaching this skill the same way that I would approach any other skill in the classroom that I would teach them, why wouldn't I just use my approach that I'm using on every other skill and find out how to apply that to potty training?
And so that's what I did. And I will tell you, I never in my life thought I would be doing potty training work as most of my job, but I would say 75 percent of what I do is all around potty training, wild to me. Yeah, I mean, it's a testament. And that's why I say pee and poop a hundred times a day.
Brittyn: Yes, exactly. I think naming things as they are is just the best way to address them.
Molly: Yeah, exactly. It's just a part of it.
Brittyn: Yeah, so anyone listening to this podcast episode has gotten a nice sneak peek to all of the fun terms that we get to use in our jobs.
Molly: Part of the game. It's part of the game.
Brittyn: It totally is. And good to use those words with kids as well so that they can, properly name what it is.
Molly: Oh, absolutely. I think the last thing we want to do is shy away from What our bodies do. Is it weird and uncomfortable to talk about pee and poop? Yes, a little bit because it's a private thing that we all do in private with nobody around.
But the reality is we all do it and we want it to sound normal and we want to normalize it to your child as well. We don't want it to be this big, secretive, you know, shameful thing. And that definitely comes out in the way that we talk about it. And that goes hand in hand with kids and anxiety, you know, autism and anxiety go hand in hand.
It is not uncommon for an autistic child to maybe be a little overly sensitive with emotions and it's all tied into their anxiety. And the last thing we want is for them to feel shameful about having a bowel movement. Our kids fart or they poop and we're changing our diaper and we're like, Oh, gross. You're so stinky. And that's normal. We all do it. No shame. But I have had so many situations where, an autistic child who the parents are about to potty train it's almost. Like it's an attention thing.
Like they don't want that negative attention. They almost start to feel shameful. They start to feel like this stinks. I shouldn't be doing this. They almost had this sense of guilt. And so then they start to hide all of their poop behaviors. And so I have seen in a lot of situations where, when we take away that language and we don't say gross. That's so gross. Yuck,, don't do this in here when we take away that type of shaming and I hate to say shaming because, I totally do it with my baby too. It's not shaming. I need a better word, but I have seen it negatively impact kids is what I'm trying to say. Just say, yeah, be matter of fact…You pooped! Let's go to the bathroom and change your diaper. You know, very matter of fact. Call out the facts. And don't put emotions around it. Just because I've seen it backfire in so many situations.
Brittyn: Yeah, I think that's really important advice. And something that people can, start doing today.
I mean, you've changed the language that we use around toileting, but also the language we use around eating. Just the language we use around our kids in general can make such a huge difference on their viewpoint, on their confidence, what they're doing, and how they're eating, and how they're going to the bathroom.
It's crazy. I actually recorded an entire podcast episode just about the mealtime language that we have around food and how that impacts picky eating with, her name is Stephanie Meyer and she specializes in literally language at mealtime. Like her name is Table Talk Coach. So it's amazing.
I mean, what you're saying makes total sense that the language that you're using around potty training is also going to impact your child's outlook, and success too. So I love that.
Molly: And, you know, even when we talk, look at me, I'm like so theatrical, my hands don't stop moving when I talk, but Our body language communicates so much when we're saying certain words or sending certain messages.
And so for a kid, that's hypersensitive or has an added layer of anxiety, what we're putting out there could truly make a difference. I was talking about this, watching our language around potty training on social media and someone kind of came after me and said, Okay, you're taking gentle parenting way too far, relax, and it's only because I've seen it go the opposite direction where now a child is so shameful feeling about having a bowel movement, that they're going and hiding behind their curtains and pooping on the floor, and not saying anything and trying to keep mom and dad out of their room because they're trying to hide it.
I'm just trying to avoid future problems, future speed bumps down the road for parents.
Brittyn: Totally. I think you're spot on and oftentimes people don't think about that. They haven't thought about what might actually come from that. And so I love that you're thoughtful about it.
I think that's really great. So I know we could talk so much longer, but we have, like I said, these amazing workshops set up, you have your potty training workshop inside of my membership, the Nourishing Autism Collective. And then, I will be in, I think the following day. I can't remember.
I'll have to, I'll have to share the exact dates whenever I record this.
Molly: Vice versa. You might come into mine the first day and I come into yours the second day, but regardless, it's back to back. So I'm very excited about that. I love that we can love on each other's communities and memberships and help in these overlapping areas, because like you said, there's so much overlap in this little world that we're in and we can just help each other's community so well.
So I'm excited to be in your membership and talk more about potty training. I guess I could talk until I'm blue in the face, right?
Brittyn: Yes, exactly. Well, thanks so much and share where people can find you as well.
Molly: Absolutely. So if you look up The Autism Consultant, that's where I'm at everywhere.
Instagram, Facebook, podcast. That's where I'm at and I have a ton of free episodes on my podcast, every topic under the sun, guest speakers, Brittyn has been a guest speaker before. so there's lots of information there for parents to dive into and learn more about how to support their child with skill development and behaviors.
Brittyn: Amazing. Thanks so much, Molly. I appreciate you coming on. I can't wait until April.
Molly: I know, we've got a lot going on. Thanks for having me.
Brittyn: Thanks everyone.
Transcribed by Descript
About Brittyn Coleman, MS, RDN/LD
Brittyn Coleman, MS, RDN/LD, is a distinguished Registered Dietitian and Autism Nutrition Expert, known for her innovative, sensory-friendly feeding approach to nutrition for children on the autism spectrum. As the founder of the Nourishing Autism Collective, and as an autism sibling herself, Brittyn brings both professional expertise and personal understanding to her work. She empowers families with her expert guidance, helping children receive essential nutrients for optimal health and development. Her strategies are tailored to the unique dietary needs and sensory preferences of each child.
Brittyn's influence extends beyond her membership site through her active social media presence and her popular podcast, 'Nourishing Autism'. Her educational content on Instagram, YouTube, and other platforms has established her as a leading voice in autism nutrition, providing valuable resources, practical advice, and a supportive community for parents and professionals.
